You can stay up to date on current Gamecock sports through multiple news outlets and platforms, but to delve into the history of Gamecock sports, Alan Piercy is your guy. He writes a blog about Gamecock sports history and has written a book on USC sports during the independent era of 1971-91. He's also contemplating another book on the men's basketball program in the early Frank McGuire era and construction of the Carolina Coliseum in 1968.
TRANSCRIPT
Welcome to Remembering the Days, where we explore the stories and talk with the people who are part of the rich history of the University of South Carolina.
I’m Evan Faulkenbury and today Chris Horn and I are talking sports, Gamecock sports, of course. Yep, and we’ve got the perfect conversation partner. Alan Piercy is the author of ‘A Gamecock Odyssey: University of South Carolina sports in the independent era,’ which tells the story of why USC left the ACC in 1971 and spent 20 years as an independent before joining the SEC in 1991. Alan was on an earlier episode entitled ‘The wilderness years: USC sports in the independent era,’ but we had so much fun talking with him, that we decided to continue the conversation.
Yeah, there’s no such thing as too much garnet and black when you’re talking college sports history. As a North Carolina native myself, I’m familiar with the lore of the Atlantic Coast Conference and knew a little bit about South Carolina’s place in that story, but I’ve got to say I learned a lot listening to Alan. He’s a 1995 graduate of the university and a walking encyclopedia of USC sports. Let’s get started with today’s conversation.
Evan Faulkenbury: Thanks again for being here. One of the first questions I had on my mind when I was looking at your book again was, I guess I would have imagined or guessed that someone writing a book on Gamecock sports history would start with football. But you did not. You started with basketball. Why did you do that?
Alan Piercy: Well, first of all, Evan, Chris, thanks for the opportunity to be here. It's a thrill for me to talk with you. So, yeah, basketball, 'Storms in the Southland' is the title of the first chapter, and it's really just all about the apex of South Carolina's time in the ACC, literally just days before the university announced its exit from the ACC, we won our first and only ACC basketball championship, 1971, March of 71. And so I thought, you know, what a great opportunity to sort of set the stage, talk about that championship. And it was such a dramatic game with Kevin Joyce's tip to Tom Owens to win that last-second basket and then sort of go back in time and talk about some of the animosity between South Carolina and her ACC brethren at the time, particularly UNC and Duke, Maryland, and some of the others. And talk about not just Frank McGuire's program and the success he was having, but also Paul Dietzel's football program and Dietzel's role as athletics director. Some of the academic admissions standards in the ACC that were higher than the rest of the NCAA, which created a lot of problems for South Carolina. Paul Dietzel in particular. And so I just thought that was a great stage setter. And again, just days before, literally days before South Carolina announced its exit from that conference that it had helped found in 1953.
Chris Horn: Alan, when you mentioned that ACC Championship game? I remember watching that, and I might have mentioned to you, my mom, who was a very mild-mannered person, somehow got attached to USC basketball and would watch those games and she just became fiery, would be yelling at the refs, you know, through the television. I have this affinity for it because I remember it. What is it about sports history in general and maybe USC sports history in particular that can capture people's attention who weren't alive during that time?
Alan Piercy: Well, first of all, Chris, the story about your mom, that's a common theme, you know, for anybody that lived through those times. My mom was a nurse and worked at the Baptist Hospital back in the mid-70s. She tells stories about the incidence of heart attack rising during basketball season because people were so intense about it, so into it.
What draws people in and even people that weren't around, I first of all, for people that were there, I think it's a matter of nostalgia. People tend to think about those athletes and coaches in such nostalgic ways, and it reminds them of a different era in their life. Maybe when they were growing up, when they were kids going to games. Even for people that weren't there, I think there's a sort a mystery. I know when I was growing up, going to games with my dad, it was after the Frank McGuire era, so early, mid-80s and on. So I didn't see any of those teams, but just going to games at the old Coliseum, seeing the banners, retired jerseys, Roche and English and Joyce and hearing the stories about how great those teams were, I was just fascinated with those teams. And again, being in that old arena where they played, I imagine what it must have been like to to be there for those teams. I think it's just anytime you follow a team, if you follow a team passionately, whether it's the Gamecocks or the Yankees or the Packers or whoever it might be, you're interested in everything about that team and you want to know more. You want to know what have they been through? The ups, the downs, the coaches, the players. And so it's just a common thing for anybody interested in sports.
Evan Faulkenbury: One of the unique things about following a college team so passionately, what you're just getting into, you might follow the Packers or the Yankees, but that's just one sport in a professional league. If you're from South Carolina or you follow the Gamecocks, you're an alum or you're not an alum, you don't just follow one sport, one team. it's multiple. And so that's a unique experience, not just here but across college sports. But what do you think is the power or the magic of that in America?
Alan Piercy: My wife understands what you're talking about. She's from Wisconsin. And so when I talked about the Packers, that'swhere that came from. But she's sort of taken aback, season by season, football and basketball, men's and women's, and baseball and then, you know, back into the fall, it's soccer and football again. And so you're right, it never really ends. Part of it is whether you're a women's soccer fan or a tennis fan or, you know, it doesn't really matter. You're going to pull for the Gamecocks, particularly when they're playing that team from the Upstate. But you're always going to be interested and you're always going to be looking and maybe checking the paper to see how the soccer team did last night, even if you don't really care anything about soccer. It's just your innate connection to the university, I think, that is different, that separates college sports from professional sports.
Chris Horn: Alan, how did you get started writing your Substack piece, 'South by Southeast'? And when did that begin?
Alan Piercy: That started a couple of years ago. I had finished the book and was looking for a new creative outlet and wanted to keep this going, this sort of Gamecock theme. And I had been so focused for years on this 20 year period — '71 to '91. And so the newsletter just became an opportunity to kind of write about whatever I wanted to write about, you know, different eras, different teams and kind of go wherever I felt like going with it. And I had a list of 25 or 30 different things that I wanted to dig into research and write about.
Chris Horn: Have you felt like you've kind of tapped into a vein of fans out there that are that are kind of hungry for this?
Alan Piercy: I think so, I think so, and, you know, granted, it's a relatively limited audience, you know, obviously focused on, on Gamecock history. And so Gamecock fans are going to be the primary target there. And even, you know, it's kind of a subset of Gamecock fans, people who really want to dive into that history. But for the people that are interested in that, yeah, I think I've gotten I've gotten a lot of comments from, you know, very kind people that have read the articles and told me that, hey, you know, this this resonated with me. This is something I've always wanted to know more about, or this is something that, you know, it brings back such memories because I lived through it.
Evan Faulkenbury: This is the second time you've appeared on this podcast, and so we're not asking maybe some questions listeners might expect, but you should go back and listen to that October 2023 episode and you'll get some of the longer context, I believe. So we're trying to ask some different questions here. Another thing that caught my attention reading your book was how before USC joined the SEC, not very many titles, really no titles in any sport. After joining the SEC, now it was a slow go at first, but quite a few titles have accumulated over the course of that time, so I know that's a little bit outside the boundaries of your book, but can you speak on that about the difference?
Alan Piercy: There were a few conference titles, but no national titles, you know, at the time and even through the ACC period and this independent period that I write about in the book, you know, no conference titles. Part of that, I think, was just the way things were structured back in the '70s. Mcguire teams. They had one team during the ACC years that was able to go to an NCAA tournament because only the conference winner, a conference tournament winner in those days, went to the tournament. And so, you know, if you'd had at-large bids. You know, South Carolina probably would have had an opportunity to go quite, quite a bit more. But that's just the way things were back then. We get into the SEC and the SEC money has certainly helped. You know, 33 years of sort of lucrative stability. And we had neither before the SEC, not a lot of stability, you know, administratively. Certainly things were sort of tenuous from a financial perspective as well. And so that's been a godsend, getting into the SEC and the money involved with that.
Of course, we've used that to make massive upgrades in facilities, upgrades in coaching hires. You know, you look at the likes of, you know, the people that have been here during the SEC period, you know, Lou Holtz, Steve Spurrier, Dawn Staley, Ray Tanner. My goodness, just amazing talent in the coaching ranks that we've had. Through the '90s. It was kind of a rough go, but that once that flywheel starts turning and the momentum starts to build on itself and just the prestige of the SEC, I think starts to attract coaches like Ray Tanner and Dawn Staley and Steve Spurrier. And I don't think we would have ever had that opportunity outside of the SEC. And so that's been just that brand, our affiliation with that brand has been a massive, massive thing, not just for the university, but for the city of Columbia, for the state of South Carolina. It's been huge.
Chris Horn: In your book and in your blog, you cover a lot of different stories and a lot of interesting people. Who would, if you had to pick, who would you say is the most colorful person that you've written about either from the book or from your blog?
Alan Piercy: That's kind of what was interesting to me about this particular period is the characters. And you think about the likes of Paul Dietzel and Frank McGuire, you know, who had won national championships at LSU and North Carolina, respectively. Jim Carlin, who was just sort of this combative personality, great football coach, but kind of his own worst enemy in some ways. Pam Parsons, who was kind of a tragic tale, but great storytelling, just her as a personality.
Jimmy Foster was probably the one guy who I was sort of fascinated with. His story kind of brought me to this project. I was interested in trying to catch up with him. For those that don't know, he was a freshman in 1980-81. So this was the first year after Frank McGuire. Bill Foster was the coach, no relation, Bill Foster had come down from Duke, as a matter of fact, to replace Frank McGuire. So, anyway, Jimmy Foster, 6'-8” forward center on that team and went on to a brilliant career. Graduated as the or left the program as the third-leading scorer in program history. One of only five players to pull down a thousand rebounds and a thousand plus points. Great player. Hall of Fame player. Should be, but he ran into a lot of trouble. We talk about people being their own worst enemies. I think he was his own worst enemy. He was as good as he was off the court or on the court rather he was kind of a hot mess off the court and actually ran into some legal trouble, which I go into in the book, landed the program, the basketball program and the university in some hot water, resulting in some allegations, resulted in NCAA probation.
It was such a human story. Greatness but troubled. That's the story of so many different people. And I thought it was just interesting to tell that very human story through Jimmy Foster.
Evan Faulkenbury: And he disappeared for a while, didn't he?
Alan Piercey: He disappeared. He was playing professional basketball in Australia when he was charged in absentia for, uh, what was I forget what the charge was, exactly. But he had he had borrowed a Mercedes coupe essentially from Dick Dyer, a local dealership there at the time, and didn't bring it back, charges were filed, and again, he was charged in absentia. Nobody actually knows what the sentence was other than the judge. It’s still sealed, as far as I know, but he never came back that we know of, never actually faced those charges. He sort of would drive through Columbia from time to time. I learned this after talking with him. He would drive through Columbia from time to time and sort of parked back behind the old Coliseum and just sort of think back to his playing days. And, you know, he loved being a player at the University of South Carolina. He loved the University of South Carolina. Unfortunately that story did not end well. And it was kind of a mess of his own making that he should have come back home and tried to resolve and figure it out. He just never did that. And so unfortunately, you've got a great player who should be in the Hall of Fame, but because of those troubles, just still has that separation with the university.
Evan Faulkenbury: Can you talk a little bit about in the '70s and '80s during this period of independent play, where some teams had success and you document that, but overall, there was a kind of, I don't know what the right word is, but a lack of energy, perhaps on campus, in Columbia, because there are those old rivalries that they have been playing for so long, didn't completely go away, but for the most part did. And so they're filling their schedule with teams way far away without any kind of historic rivalry. You talk about the attendance, just like dropping at the Coliseum. And so, what was that period like for, for folks who were so passionate about the Gamecocks and the university and the state of South Carolina, but was just in this hard, tough period at the same time.
Alan Piercey: You know, Frank McGuire had taken South Carolina from sort of a doormat, a perennial loser in the ACC to competing for ACC championships and potentially national championships as well. And so when South Carolina left the ACC, which was really a football-driven decision by Coach Dietzel, Coach Dietzel, of course, was our football coach and athletics director. Conflict of interest, we can see that in hindsight now. I think Coach McGuire, even though he had really heated rivalries, really intense rivalries with other coaches and administrators in the ACC, not just from his South Carolina days, but from his UNC days as well, he had a lot of enemies and it was bitter. I mean, there were a lot of brawls and fights during basketball games back in those days. But despite all that, I think Coach McGuire understood and appreciated the value to South Carolina as a member of the ACC. I think maybe I get the sense that at the time that Carolina left withdrew from the conference in ‘71, he might have been sort of agnostic about it. But I think he really quickly understood that, hey, without these rivalries, without UNC and Duke and Maryland coming to town, it's going to be tough to fill up this 12,400-seat coliseum.
And sure enough, it was. Now, he had great teams for several years after, great players — Alex English, Mike Dunleavy, to name just a couple. And so the team continued to be sort of prominent nationally, you know, top-five, top-10 caliber team for several years. But by the mid-70s, um, you know, McGuire was getting older, uh, the talent It was going other places. Kids that he used to be able to pull from New York City were going to other programs playing for younger coaches like Dean Smith and others. And as the wins started decreasing year by year, the attendance started decreasing year by year. That was a really kind of sort of a sad part of that book. You could see sort of this death by a thousand cuts as that program went from sort of an elite program to just year by year, decreasing in wins and attendance. And, and so by the time '79-80 rolled around, Coach McGuire's final season, he'd been here 16 years and and people loved him. People absolutely loved Frank McGuire. He's still a legend. But I think people also understood that it was it was time for a change at that point in time.
Evan Faulkenbury: Is there anything that makes Gamecock fans different from Buckeye fans or Crimson Tide fans? Is there something that gives a unique flavor to particularly Gamecock fans?
Alan Piercey: So it's a really interesting question. And I think there is. I live in Raleigh and my wife and I were at a fair with vendors and one of the vendors was selling drawings of different campuses around the country. Of course, UNC and Duke and Wake Forest, but also some others and South Carolina was one of them. And it was a beautiful drawing of campus and and so I picked it up as my wife rolled her eyes like, you know, I need another something like that. But I was just talking with the artist who's from North Carolina and telling her how impressed I was that she had USC amongst her allotment and she said, 'You know, it's funny, I sell more of those than anything else, even here in North Carolina.' She said 'people that have any affiliation with USC love that college. They're passionate about that college.' And so I think that's absolutely true. If you're a Gamecock, you're passionate about it. We've all suffered through some of these hard times that I write about in the book, the 0-and-21 stretch that we were kind of talking about, we all suffered through some things and we've all seen the highs as well. So I don't know exactly what makes being a Gamecock fan different than being a Maryland Terrapin fan or a Wisconsin Badger fan, necessarily, other than maybe what we talked about before that we had no pro sports in South Carolina. This is what we've got. We've got South Carolina, we've got Clemson. And the passion is just unrivaled.
Chris Horn: Alan, thanks so much for joining us today. This has been a lot of fun. I hope we can have you back again sometime.
Alan Piercey: Thanks, Chris, and thanks, Evan, and congratulations on your position as university historian. And Chris, congrats on your retirement. It's been a pleasure to be here and such a joy to talk about these things.
Evan Faulkenbury: Thanks, Alan. What's the next book about?
Alan Piercey: I am in the early stages of writing about sort of a prequel to this book, um, specifically about Coach McGuire and his Gamecock program in the ACC years. So ‘64 to ‘71, talking about the building of Carolina Coliseum. And I think there's some interesting stories around that as well.
Chris Horn: Alan really is a walking encyclopedia of USC sports. And I think about how he got started with that book project, looking into the whole back story of Jimmy Foster. That could be a pretty cool book if he decides to write it.
Evan Faulkenbury: It was a lot of fun listening to Alan. It's fun just to talk sports some times. I love hearing what he had to say about what makes Gamecock fans unique. Every college and university has sports, but here there is just something different, and I think Alan, in this book, he captures that a little bit.
Chris Horn: I hope we can have him back to talk about some more stories from his book, as well as this upcoming book project when he;s going to be looking at the early frank mcguire years and the whole push to build the carolina coliseum
On the next episode of Remembering the Days, we're going to be looking at monuments and markers, historical markers on the campus. Our conversation partner will be Lydia Brandt, a professor of art history here at the university, who has done a lot of research on the architecture of this campus and the historical markers and monuments that have been coming up the past few years. That's next on Remembering the Days.